So what do you think?

[ailbhe]

I've heard this sentiment a few times in the recent past - say the past six months or so:

"If she didn't want to be woken up by sex, she should have told him so before."

Comments

[batswing.livejournal.com]

I REALLY don't think it SHOULD be so, but I know I've had a conversation with a VERY surprised boyfriend-at-the-time who thought it'd be really sexy for me to wake up with him already at it. We had to discuss the concept of him loosing his goolies if he ever dared actually do it, but he really was astonished that we didn't share this 'fantasy'/interest. I dread to think what it would have done to my at the time fragile mind if we hadn't had that conversation and it had just happened. I think a lot of people would think it's fine, unfortunately for those of us who wouldn't.

I don't understand though how anyone could think it's ok unless it's really definately ok in the context of that relationship.

[elissaann.livejournal.com]

I prefer this one to be opt-in, rather than opt-out. Sex without my consent is called rape.

[rjw76]

Emphatically agreed; I'm sure there are many couples who are fine with it, but as with all sexual matters, you should *talk about it first*. Which is a sentiment sadly lacking in far too many people.

Um. It also strikes me as somewhat uncomfortable; odds are there'd be something of a lack of lubrication, surely?

[ailbhe]

Not if gentle foreplay preceded the sex - say not enough to wake someone but enough to elicit a physical reaction. I *think* that kind of thing is why people think it's somehow consensual.

[rjw76]

Mm. Maybe I'm odd then, but I'd wake up the second someone touched me. But then I am quite a light sleeper.

[elissaann.livejournal.com]

I gave my partner verbal consent for this, and I would be appalled if he thought it was okay without previous consent. In fact, I shall ask him what he thinks.

A bottle of lubricant on the bedside table is a useful thing.

[elisem.livejournal.com]

I prefer this one to be opt-in, rather than opt-out. Sex without my consent is called rape.

EXACTLY.

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

if the "she" in question is a female roommate, being woken up by noisy sex in the next bedroom over, then okay.

if the she in question is a female participant, then i think that a) yes, they should have discussed it before with him bringing it up if he thought this sounded like fun to him, and b) i could probably forgive a guy trying that with me once as long as he stopped once i hit him and told him to (i am, um, not at my politest first thing in the am) and never tried it again and apologized a lot. oh, and he'd have to mention that he was wrong and he should have discussed it with me first.

[kightp.livejournal.com]

Well, without any context:

I think "should haves" are pretty irrelevant to, well, most situations, and that the phrase is most often used to blame or to try to get another party off the hook for bad behavior.

In any case, even a person who's sometimes enthusiastic about Activity A is not required to always be enthusiastic about Activity A.

[griffen.livejournal.com]

I think it's disgusting, but as Danny reminds me, I have done the same thing to him (not, however, since he's asked me not to).

[haggis.livejournal.com]

That is deeply screwed up.

[rosefox]

If X wants to make any sexual foray not previously explored or discussed, X should ask Y what Y thinks of the idea before trying it out, unless X and Y already have a policy in place that it's okay to try new things without prior discussion.

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

I'd say that there's not enough context in the quote to say.

However, making several assumptions to come to the point of thinking that this refers to people who are in a relationship and one of them initiating sexual contact while the other is asleep... I'd have to know how broad a definition of sex is being applied here before I can decide how horrified I am. If this means that he woke her up by, say, kissing her on the neck or nibbling on the ear and obviously hoping to have it go further, but she irately told him that she wanted to sleep and he said okay and rolled over and didn't pursue it any futher, and then the next day she told him never to wake her up like that again, then I'm not going to call the cops and report a rape or anything. If she actually woke up to him, say, having PIV intercourse with her, then I'm a little more horrified. I'm also horrified if she indicated at that point that she wasn't down with what was happening and he didn't stop.

Ultimately, I think that just assuming someone's going to be into having sex at a point in time where their state makes it impossible to ascertain whether they are or not is stupid, and it's something that should have been negotiated beforehand, but I can imagine ways this situation could have played out wherein it's just very stupid and not indicative of a dangerous person or terrifyingly horrible. (I can also imagine scenarios where the latter are more appropriate descriptions.)

And then, of course, there's the ambiguity of what exactly is being talked about at all. I mean, maybe it's that the person is an extremely light sleeper on a swing shift and is really annoyed that her next door neighbour has sex during the day while she's sleeping becuase the walls are so thin that it keeps her awake. In which case, I'm sure that notifying your neighbour that they're causing you a problem is probably a good plan.

[ailbhe]

In the conversations I can remember, it refers to a woman waking up to a penis inside her vagina.

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that certainly seems to be on the horrific side of things.

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

So this happens a lot? (I just noticed the plural.) I can't say I've ever heard of it happening to anyone I knew, although that's not to say that it doesn't happen and I just don't know.

[ailbhe]

It has happened to me - the man apologised but was surprised it wasn't welcome - and to several other women I know of. I can't remember now how many women I *know* to whom it has happened.

The men doing it seem to see it as a romantic gesture, as far as I can tell. In general.

[elisem.livejournal.com]

There is nothing like a lover
Who can satisfy your needs
And the joy when you discover
Just how often he succeeds
But before my eyes can focus
I don't need him to surprise
By descending like a locust
On a field of sleeping thighs

That's from Uncle Bonsai's song "Boys Want Sex In The Morning," for which full lyrics are available about a third of the way down the right-hand side of The Inessential Uncle Bonsai page at Yellowtail records.

[hitchhiker.livejournal.com]

Three Weird Sisters do a wonderful cover of that.

[kiya]

Prior consent always.

[kcobweb.livejournal.com]

It's rather objectifying - shouldn't she have a say in it too, or is she just a vehicle for him to get his rocks off? I agree - if this is something "he" (as it is a he in your quote) might want to try, he should ask beforehand.

(My partner is home for lunch, and I asked him - he says "that's ridiculous".)

[elisem.livejournal.com]

If he didn't want me to punch his lights out in all-out crazed wolverine defensive reflex, he should have negotiated this with me before.

Though I did have somebody who accused me of threatening him when I told him about some defensive reflexes I used to have set pretty hair-trigger. In hindsight, that should have been a clue to other things in his attitudes.

Actually, I'm mellowed out enough these days that I might not even strike to disable. And when I used to be that spring-loaded, it really wasn't anything I had under control when being awakened; that being kind of the point of a defensive reflex, after all.

[rjw76]

I have just checked with my partner, who was absolutely horrified to discover people of either gender think it's OK- he'd never considered that someone might do it. My faith is slightly restored, but...

[ckd]

Um. Not just no, but hell no. This is most definitely an opt-in prior-agreement-required WTF were you thinking?! No no no no NO.

[baratron.livejournal.com]

EWW EWWW EWWW EWWW!

OK, I have Consent Issues - but I really believe it's better to err on the side of caution. I've been with Richard for over 8 years, and I still always explicitly ask him if he wants to have sex, even if we're naked in bed and one person is on top of the other.

Am really grossed out that there are people who think having their partner wake up to find them already fucking is a *romantic* gesture. Ugh. Total ugh. Prior consent does not imply future consent.

[calieber.livejournal.com]

Maybe -- maybe -- deep into a long-term relationship, where he knows the hour-to-hour, day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month etc. patterns of her libido, where he has a general idea of how much advance warning she wants/needs before they do anything sexual, if the relationship in general and the sexual relationship in particular is going smoothly, it's not entirely unreasonable if his thought process is more involved than simply "well, I just woke up horny at 3 A.M. and she's right here in the bed with me." And if he does stop if she tells him to stop (or even just asks him to stop).

If she previously gave him permission to wake her up with foreplay/sex, then I think it's fair for him to expect her to say specifically if she doesn't want that on a given night.

[moustachios.livejournal.com]

Having someone disturb my sleep so he can get his rocks off would annoy me.

Waking up to find someone didn't even bother to ask before indulging himself would result in violence on my part.

[dangerpudding.livejournal.com]

Without discussion and consent, it's not ok. On the other hand, I do think that with those things it can be - I'm pretty clear with my partners that I'm ok with things like that, and the case where I wouldn't be is a rare one-off, so I'd be ok with telling them as it woke me up. On the other hand, I don't think it would get very far without me waking up.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

"If he wanted to wake her up with sex, he should have negotiated it previously..."

The thing is...I seem to be in a distinct minority here, but with the right parter, I *do* enjoy waking up to sex. There are nights when my sleep has to be a strong priority, but outside those times, with a partner I feel comfortable with, I wouldn't mind.

BUT. I read back over that, and I see that I'm saying "I". It's *my* kink, and up to me to discuss that with partners. If it's that guy's kink to do this sort of thing, he needs to bring it up.

I see lots of people being squicked (or so it reads to me) -- it's hard to separate, because fundamentally this *is* a consent issue, but it's just as much a consent issue with BDSM activities or just about anything else. Learning to talk about sex, rather than working on the ad hoc level, is generally a good thing no matter what the activity that ensues.

[lovingboth]

My very favourite way to be woken up is to have L slide herself down my penis. She knows that. It wakes me up, very very quickly.

The other way... or having something in me, which I sometimes want and sometimes do NOT... no, no, no. Not without asking.

[firecat]

Because of course it's always the woman's job to be the gatekeeper.




(I often like being woken up by foreplay. I've never been woken up by sex in an unpleasant way, except for "that's nice but I'd rather sleep." But that might have something to do with my being more picky about who I sleep with than about who I have sex with.)

[nosgirl.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I don't think it is so much a matter of "he thought it would be fun" as a misunderstanding. I've woken up my boyfriend several times with foreplay because I thought he was awake due to things he was doing in his sleep (like taking my hand and sticking it down his boxers, etc.). Likewise, I've been woken up in the same manner, I woke them up by doing things in my sleep that made them think I was awake. Though, if the other person is adverse to it, it should stop as soon as the displeasure is made known.

[pauamma]

Reverse situation. I once woke up and found I had been humping my then-wife's leg while asleep. Should I apologize for doing so without consent? Assume that she consented implicitly by not waking me up or otherwise stopping me (eg getting out of reach)? (she woke up before I did, IIRC) Or be upset because she let it go on without my (conscious) consent? (As I remember, I was mortified by the incident, but can't recall the specific reason(s) after 16+ years.)