Mens sane in corpore sanum, or something

[ailbhe]

I'm sure you can correct the Latin.

I've realised something over the past two days - I'm afraid that when my body has been fixed (28 days from now, apparently) I will have to be better in my mind as well - and I just won't be. A large part of the problem is imagining how much everyone hates me being such a moany whinger, which isn't helped when people tell me I am - the whole "It could be worse" scenario. At least now I have the excuse of being physically seriously unwell; when I've been surgically fixed, I have no tangible excuse not to frolic gaily through the budding spring, pausing to feed lambs, show Linnea nesting birdies, and bake my own bread, etc.

Well, except that it won't be spring, of course. Inset carol singers, roast chestnuts, and cutting down my own Christmas tree in the snow with a humourously red nose, then.

Guilt guilt guilt guilt guilt guilt guilt guilt RESENTMENT guilt guilt guilt guilt guilt guilt guilt DEFENSIVENESS guilt guilt guilt. I wonder how much of this has to do with growing up in holy catlick Ireland, even though my mother isn't very holy catlick at all?

Comments

[miss-corinne.livejournal.com]

Have all the time you need to get better, really better. I know I don't really know you, but I am sure, absolutely positive, that noone could begrudge you that!

[tiggsybabes.livejournal.com]

Don't feel gulity, babes. I've wasted for too many hours being upset by people belittling my pregnancy symptons & my fear of labour as there are worse experiences out there than mine. My brain doesn't care about that. All it was concerned about was the first time I ever went into hospital didn't turn out as expected, so that makes it all a bit fearful.

Am secretly terrified of giving birth again & would have loved to have accepted the planned section that was offered me deep down.

The midwife who saw me yesterday said "good girl" when she read my notes about wanting a VBAC. Would she have aid "bad girl" if my notes had a planned section date in them?!

[sshi.livejournal.com]

there's probably a certain amount that you absorb from living in the culture, going to a convent school, etc., even if your family aren't the Legion of Mary type.
I say fuck them and their internalising guilt. you need time to heal, mentally as well as physically and no-one should be telling you otherwise, dammit.

Sympathies

[beckyl.livejournal.com]

I'm feeling a bit the same - now I have a job and we don't have big money worries any more, I should be happy and bouncy and just get on with all the stuff that needs doing. Instead, I've been having major toothache, panic attacks, the scary feeling that I'm mostly liking working at this job and they're going to arbitrarily take it away from me like the last couple of times. It doesn't help that for the past couple of months the emotional instability associated with a week of surging hormones has produced much more depression and anger than silliness.

Some of it is undoubtedly longer nights and cold weather. Some of it's me. Hopefully, if good things keep happening, it'll keep getting better.

[nex0s.livejournal.com]

if i've caused you undue guilt by saying how much worse it could have been, i'm incredibly sorry. that was SO not my intention! i was trying in my incredibly clumsy way to be supportive in the only way i know how. for myself, i know that knowing how much worse it could have been usually makes me feel better about my own issue. so i'm sorry. if it helps, it wasn't my intention :(

i want you to get better, but not because i hate hearing about how you are hurting, but because i consider you my friend and i prefer my friends happy and healthy for their sake.

but i also want you to get better at the pace you *need*. i want to support you in that in any way i can.

*hug*

n.

[k425.livejournal.com]

Minds and bodies heal at different rates, for different people. If you have a fast healing body that doesn't mean you have a fast healing mind, and vice versa.

And just because you're having your op soon, that's not the end of "fixing your body". Your body wil still need to heal from the op, and it may take time, and that will add to the time taken for your mind to heal.

And one of the things that I found really helpful was hearing from a woman who had a pretty untraumatic pregnancy and labour (but a mad dash to hospital after the birth, for bleeding) that it took her body 2 years to be what it was prepregnancy, but she was still healing, emotionally, a couple of years after that. That from a counsellor.

I think upbringing does have a lot to do with it.

And I think your tree would look Christmasier with a star or an angel rather than a red nose.

[porcinea.livejournal.com]

It made me feel *so* much better to hear about the post-natal PTSD clinic near you. Because, *damn* that was a traumatic experience. And, no, I'm not post-natally depressed, I'm post-natally *freaked out*. And if my mother-out-law pulls me aside one more freaking time for her "you should be grateful for your healthy, happy baby" pep talk, I swear it's gonna be a clue-by-four upside the head.

Someday you will again frolick gaily through the budding spring. But fuck if you know when.

Maybe we need to send Crazy Harry around on a collection run. Guilt go *BOOM*.

[radegund.livejournal.com]

no tangible excuse

Oh, I can relate to that! When I'm feeling low, I sometimes catch myself wishing I could come down with some convenient illness, just to give me something to wave at people and shut them up...

I don't know if this applies to you, but for me this is linked to the deep-seated, persistent and frankly embarrassing conviction that I (unlike other people) can be either (a) entirely perfect (the budding spring / knit your own Christmas tree bit), or (b) unlovable, unforgivable and undeserving of anything good. This, as niallm patiently points out, is not actually a reasonable position. But it's still in there, and it comes out to throw its weight around whenever it sees an opening.

Baby steps...

Re: Mens sane in corpore sanum, or something

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

i'd guess that some of the "it could be worse" talk isn't at all about you being a moany whinger (you are? i hadn't noticed.), but about people's blubbering inability to find the right words when trying to express their sympathy, and their wish to help you in some small way.

since i operate a lot from the point of view that even at my worst times i am considerably more lucky than people who have it even worse, i can sorta empathize with that, though i tend to restrain assumptions about the universality of what works for me, since i am used to others being different. :)

in my book guilt is for bad things you have willfully caused. you didn't cause the damage to your body and consequently to your mind. and you sound like you're being a really nifty mother, and partner to rob, so hey, embrace that guilt and then kick it out to mooch off somebody who actually needs it.

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

You so don't read as a moany whinger to me, for what it's worth.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

if you would like a tangible excuse for not frolicking until you damn well feel like it, i could easily promise to come whack you in the knee anytime you frolicked. (let me know once you damn well feel like it, and i will rescind the offer.) then you can tell people that i won't let you frolic.

Um.

[the-ogre.livejournal.com]

I hope nothing I've said has contributed to your feeling down about this.

Personally, I don't think you have any need to apologize. You are going through some tough, hard stuff. You have to deal with it in whatever way works for you. Other folks, with the possible exception of Rob, don't really have a say.

So vent, as and however you need to. And get better. And visit California.

[firecat]

I wouldn't be surprised if getting rid of some of your pain does help your mind, once you heal from the surgery (note, fully healing from surgery can take months, so it wouldn't be a good idea to expect to be completely physically fixed 28 days from now). But whether or not that's the case, other people don't get to dictate how you should feel or behave.

Wishing you well.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

I don't read you as a moany whinger, fwiw.

Psychological damage is much slower healing, and fie on those who don't accomodate that.

[buzzy-bee.livejournal.com]

IMNSHO it couldn't be worse, just different. And I'm probably an example of the worse they allude to. However as far as I am concerned the whole "it could be worse" line is a load of b*ll*cks and I hope to heck I manage to keep to my rule not use it.

If it means anything I don't think you're a moaning whinger!

Oh and if I don't get the chance, I'll have my fingers crossed for everything going well in 28 days' time.

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

Maybe we need to send Crazy Harry around on a collection run. Guilt go *BOOM*.

Say the word and it's done.

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

I hear you. People expected me to be fully healthy six weeks after my C-section because "that's how long it takes to recover from a C-section."

My scar still twinges from time to time. Weegirl is 6 1/2.

Take the time you need to heal, physically and mentally. We're here for you.

[ailbhe]

No, you didn't. You came across as supportive, not shut-up-you're-boring. So that's ok :)

[ailbhe]

My mother and I were both saying I was more like someone with PTSD than someone with depression, and my GP and my health visitor didn't think it was possible *even though the post-traumatic-birth clinic exists* until I came back from the clinic with a diagnosis.

And my mother-in-law has been told never again to say "it could be worse" in any way or phrasing.

I suggest next time your mother out law says that, you should break her nose, and tell her that it could be worse, you could have broken her son's nose, and isn't she grateful?

[ailbhe]

I feel guilty for not being perfect in every way, mainly. And defensive about it because I know that's an irrational stance. But the defensiveness doesn't neutralise the guilt.

I think it's a lot to do with holey catlick Ireland, really.

[ailbhe]

Yeah, I have the good-enough-is-never-good-enough thing as mentioned here before. Cuddly, innit?

[mittelbar.livejournal.com]

{pet}

[feetnotes.livejournal.com]

holy catlick ireland can go f- - um, well, that's partly it, isn't it - it did, and it's made up of real people, most of whom aren't stage-oirish stereotypes - and one of them's you!
holiy catlick ireland's slowly improving, and will hopefully eventually recover, this generation or the next, maybe; but we'd all prefer it if you recover rather quicker than that!
but that's because we want you to not be hurting, not because we don't want you to tell us when you are, or show us that you are, and how, and how we might be able to help you - if we can.

yes, we wish you were all happy & bouncy & bright, but that's not wanting you to pretend you are when you're not, nor is it meant to be a burden upon you, a duty; it's how we want things to be for you again, and trust they can and will be.

wishing you were happier isn't to lay any obligation upon you, it's saying we hope the causes of your hurt and your sorrow become smaller, and fewer; and we'll try to do things to help this happen, if we're told what, when you think of them, when we feel we can.

and *huggg* again.