I feel squashed

[ailbhe]

Crossposted to plan_survive

I asked on a midwifery mailing list for recommendations of books with detailed information on c-sections. Most of the people on this list know my history, but someone who obviously didn't has emailed me to say "Have you considered a vaginal birth instead? Don't you know it's safer for mother and baby in more than 95% of cases?"

Before I could stop myself I answered with a big list of all my excuses for not having a vaginal birth this time.

And every single one felt like an excuse, not a reason, as I wrote it.

Is this normal? Am I the only person who tries to assume that people are doing what they are doing because it's the best option available to them, rather than because they're feckless idiots who can't be arsed to do things The Right Way? I know I don't always succeed in that assumption, but I try to.

I feel squashed. And guilty again, and I'm sick of feeling guilty about Linnea's birth. It's 9 days to her second birthday. *sulk*

Comments

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

I think "I nearly died last time, am still scarred, and want not to nearly die this time" is a perfectly valid reason.

I'm pro-vaginal and pro-breastfeeding whenever possible, but they're not always possible, and good parents really do sometimes have very bad circumstances.

[ailbhe]

There's no doubt in anyone's mind that you're pro-vaginal :)

[clare-s.livejournal.com]

((hugs)) move away from the naughty corner..... you don't belong there. You have no excuses (and need none) for having a CSection, you have lots of valid reasons why for you and your baby this is the safest option and why you are in that less than 5% of cases where a section is safest.

[ckd]

"More than 95%" of cases leaves out something about one in twenty. Not exactly rare, and therefore not a safe assumption even without knowing your history.

Unfortunately, some people just throw that sort of silliness around without thinking.

Me, I try to make that assumption too. I don't always succeed, either, but I do try.

From all I've read of your posts, I think you are thoughtfully and intelligently making the best decisions you can make for you and your family. Not all of them will be the optimal decision for the hypothetical "average person" (which nobody is), because everyone has different circumstances. Some of them will be non-decisions, because there are alternatives that are impossible for you. Some of them may be ones you look back on and, with hindsight, wish you'd known to make a different one. That's life.

Y'know what? My mother smoked while pregnant with me. She wishes she hadn't, but I lived anyway, and did okay. Maybe not as well as some alternatives, but if I had the choice between that and nonsmoking parents who didn't love and support me? I know which I'd take.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, you don't have anything you deserve to feel guilty about with respect to this.

The answer WITH TEETH

[baratron.livejournal.com]

Dear Ailbhe's correspondent,

"Don't you know it's safer for mother and baby in more than 95% of cases?"

Of course I fucking know that. The whole of ailbhe's livejournal friends list knows that. However, they also fucking know that she nearly fucking died last time, due to desperately trying to avoid a C-section. If you have a huge baby and a tiny woman, it's a bit bloody impossible to get the one out of the other without damage occurring. In the event, she sustained injuries that left her incontinent and in agony for over a year, and that would have left her dead in a less technologically-advanced country.

Having ailbhe not die this time would be useful, both for the newborn and the existing child, and also her husband and all the rest of us. So fuck off with your fucking assumptions back to the fucking rock you crawled out from. Stop treating intelligent mothers who already feel guilty for making the best decision for the health of their entire family like they're stupid and thoughtless. Thank you.

No love,
h-l, and her TEETH.

Re: The answer WITH TEETH

[datagoddess.livejournal.com]

*applause*

Re: The answer WITH TEETH

[rmc28]

Well said.

Re: The answer WITH TEETH

[clare-s.livejournal.com]

well said

Re: The answer WITH TEETH

[lalajia.livejournal.com]

*cheers*

Re: The answer WITH TEETH

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I LOVE YOU.

Re: The answer WITH TEETH

[nitoda]

H-L, you SO rock! :-)))

Re: The answer WITH TEETH

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

:::CHEERS:::

[baratron.livejournal.com]

Also, you don't have to justify yourself to a stranger. The only people affected by this decision are yourself, your partner and family. It doesn't matter what some fucking moron stranger thinks about your decision - what matters is what your partner and kids think about the decision. While one kid is too young to express an opinion while the other is yet to be born, I'm certain they want you alive and healthy, and I'm sure all the adults in your family want that as well.

Is it possible whenever you post asking for C-section support in the future that you append a disclaimer, saying something like:
WARNING: DO _NOT_ MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT MY MEDICAL HISTORY OR REASONS FOR HAVING A C-SECTION. MY MIDWIFE, GP AND OBSTETRICIAN ARE UNITED IN BELIEVING IT IS THE ONLY WAY I WILL SURVIVE THE BIRTH. ANY ATTEMPTS TO DISSUADE ME WILL BE TREATED AS TROLLING. IF YOU SEND ME PRIVATE EMAIL, IT WILL BE FORWARDED TO A FRIEND, WHO WILL TELL YOU IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS WHERE TO STICK YOUR OPINIONS. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING.

Still fuming here.

[ailbhe]

I know I don't have to - and often I manage to stop myself - but the instinct to do so is very strong. I've seen other women do it when asked why they don't breastfeed exclusively, for example.

Disclaimers such as the one you suggest, while satisfying, won't actually stop people who assume that obstetricians are out to cut you open and that birth is a beautiful natural process that never killed anyone. And I don't think I could go far enough to actually pass on private email :)

But I did feel much better after a good look at those pointy teeth of yours. Thanks :)

[baratron.livejournal.com]

I think I just worked out why. It's a form of bullying. It's very, very difficult not to respond to a taunt from a bully.

"Don't you know that...?" says "I know more than you-oo", and that's automatically bullying in my book. I can even whine the phrase in a sing-song playground taunt sort of way. As soon as anyone starts saying they're morally or intellectually superior to you, they're behaving like bullies. The facts speak for themselves, and don't need cheerleaders.

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

Here, have some applause.

Grrrrr...

[clanwilliam.livejournal.com]

Can I be mean to her? Please?

Two seconds' thought should have told her, for heaven's sake. I mean, we're talking about someone who is clued-up enough to be looking for independent information on a planned C-section: surely that's enough of a hint that yes, she definitely needs to have one. And it is Not an option.

Re: Grrrrr...

[ailbhe]

That's a good point; it's not the act of an uneducated or thoughtless tooposhtopusher, is it?

Re: Grrrrr...

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

Even if you were looking for information because you're "too posh to push" (HA!), it's still none of her goddamn business.

Re: Grrrrr...

[ailbhe]

I think the honest details of a c-section would be enough to put anyone off who had a genuine choice :)

Re: Grrrrr...

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

I think you're right there. :)

[pauamma]

Short answer: You feel guilty because you were attacked and got defensive as a result.

Want a hug?

[murphymom.livejournal.com]

Permission to be angry and offended on your behalf? My flist this morning seems to be full of accounts of thoughtless people and the damage they leave in their wake.

I don't know the full facts behind your story (we "met" considerably after the fact), but I have been able to deduce enough to know that it is completely unfair for *anyone* to make you feel guilty about Linnea's birth.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

My midwife recommended a book called The Cesarean Birth Experience. Some of the medical information is out of date - it's 20 years old - but the sections on emotional and family aspects, and the advice about making your Cesarean as birthlike as possible, are wonderfully helpful and reassuring.

The book's out of print. If you can't find it at your library, I'd be happy to send you my copy.

...and I'm so very sorry. I want to just grab that woman by her shoulders and shake her until her head pops off.

[ailbhe]

Thanks. I've read that, before I got pregnant (I think it's one reason I was *able* to) - the local library doesn't have it but I was able to get a copy from the La Leche League Library. But I'm no longer able to travel out to that, so... However, someone *helpful* on the midwifery list said she got on from Amazon very cheaply, so I'll be looking into that, first. Then I'll take your copy :)

I know why that woman said what she did; she runs a VBAC group. People who campaign for VBAC pretty much believe that vaginal birth is always better. But it did take quite a lot of restraint not to send her mail full of vitriol after I'd automatically sent the one full of excuses.

Off topic, I've been wondering whether you used a Totseat for Alex while out, and whether it was useful.

[buzzy-bee.livejournal.com]

OK, I think I know who it was and god help her if I am ever sitting in the same room with her again. Grrrrrrrrr.

[ailbhe]

It wasn't supercrazylady, but you may well know who she is, yeah.

[buzzy-bee.livejournal.com]

Double barrelled last name, first name starts with a D?

[ailbhe]

No D, I don't think.

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

:( I expect that that's normal in the "it happens to most people in that position" sense. I expect that it's not normal in that it would be better for everyone if it didn't happen. Either way, I don't think you should feel like a failure.

I hate that I always come up with the witty rejoinders too late, but if it comes up again, I don't think you need go any further than, "I am in the other five percent."

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

Baratron's really taken care of this, but those are REASONS, not excuses. (Dear voices in Ailbhe's head: Reasons. Did I mention that?)

And no, you're not the only person who tries to assume that people are doing things because it's the best option available to them... But you're also not an evangelist. Evangelists of many stripes are often not the best at actually listening to other evidence.

[firecat]

In my own experience with PTSD, which was significantly different from yours (psychological, no physical component), it's common for me to have a strong emotional reaction to being told that you could/should have done something differently and/or to being addressed on the subject in a patronizing tone ("don't you know?"). The reaction has faded (the PTSD incident happened over a decade ago) but a year after it happened, the reaction was still very strong.

I tend to feel anger more readily than guilt when I encounter stupid assumptions about things that my PTSD was about. But the guilt is there underneath.

[tiggsybabes.livejournal.com]

I have a bookcrossing friend who's an independent midwife. She lent me some books on VBAC when I was pregnant with Holls, so I'll ask if she has some on planned sections. She is wonderful & was a brilliant help when I was first diagnosed with PND.

[tiggsybabes.livejournal.com]

http://bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/midwiferyrocks

Her shelf is here, you can send her a PM & say that you're a friend of mine (she knows me as tiggsybabes & Anna) & I'm sure she'll post you some books out. She's a very good person to talk to as well.

[barakta]

I will ask my godmother about current good C-section books - she is an intelligent community midwife who is extremely careful about mother AND baby safety. My mother, grandmother, aunt, godmothers and several of my mothers friends have been midwives at some point in the last 100 years - many are still working in the field. I told my mum a little about your birth injuries and she was truly appalled that that happened.

I also join the clan of pointy-teethed gnashers who will happily write an extremely caustic response to anyone who even contemplates judging you. One-true-wayism is NOT helpful, nor are people who are stupid and do not read information in posts/disclaimers, or get some background information before making assumptions.

I haven't experienced pregnancy or childbirth, but I do relate to the body-not-working as it should. It is perhaps a more difficult to realise what we should do, even if we believe there is a small chance we could do - whatever the consequences. People who say we should 'do' anyway are usually those who have never experienced their body letting them down, or medical/physical problems which are exacerbated without careful spoon-management.

[therealocelot.livejournal.com]

What bugs me is that people don't realize that "Vaginal birth is safer for mother and baby in more than 95% of cases" implies that there is some significant portion of society for whom it isn't safer. 5% means that, out of 1542 members of pregnant, a c-section will be the safer option for approximately 77 of them. And (again, assuming 5%) 69 members of breastfeeding will legitimately not be able to breastfeed. 5% sounds small, but as a total number of people in a large population, it isn't.

[nicolechan.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you had someone email you to bug you about your decision. Please don't feel bad for what you HAVE to do. You are doing the right thing and don't second guess yourself :)

I'm having one but it's not for the same exact reasons as you. I mean I didn't have any severe damage like you suffered. My baby was just plain too big the first time and she wasn't going to fit. There wasn't a way to get her out unless I had a cs. I feel like a loser for planning another one, but I'm so afraid of going through the whole labor process to find out, yup this one is too big also.