Stay at home mothering

[ailbhe]

Division of labour: Rob: Earn money in 9-5:30 job plus 9 hours commuting a week, bath Linnea, take her to park 1 hour a day, cook dinner sometimes 3 nights a week, wash dirty pots, launder nappies every 2nd day or so, make three packed lunches every evening, feed cats twice daily, clean toilet daily, mix porridge ready for the morning every evening.

Ailbhe: Manage all finances in and out, care for Linnea 22 hours a day (of which she spends on average 11 asleep, though not continuously), cook dinner 4-5 nights a week, make all childcare-related decisions, all household laundry for three people (at least one load daily), grocery shopping, meal planning + budgeting, hoovering, dishes-washing (except pots), making beds, mopping up spillages, washing floors, dusting (I have a dust allergy), arrange for Linnea to see paternal relations, arrange for Linnea to see maternal relations, arrange for Rob to be respectable enough not to invite ire from paternal relations, arrange for Rob to contact his friends (I have given up on this, so if Rob hasn't contacted you, it's my fault), arrange for me to contact my friends (I do this but less than I'd like), arrange any family holidays (usually to see relations) including packing for three, booking transport for three, and either arranging or reminding Rob to arrange accommodation for three (depending on whose relations) AND do anything Rob has forgotten or neglected or been too tired to do.

And today, when I asked why he'd stayed home to help and done almost nothing, he said "But I've been working really hard!"

Can anyone give me three reasons not to kill him at this point?

Comments

[datagoddess.livejournal.com]

I'm struggling to find one reason, other than so you don't have to go find a job and do the rest, too.

Sheesh. He needs the bat-o-clue applied repeatedly.

[richtermom.livejournal.com]

What was he working really hard at?

A huge schism between my husband and me is that we rarely give each other credit for the work we do. He's convinced I do nothing around the house, and I'm convinced that 90 percent of his effort is nagging with 10 percent devoted to annoying the crap out of me. But neither of us is right. But we rarely acknowledge each others' efforts anyway.

[ailbhe]

Today he washed two meals' worth of dishes, fed Linnea breakfast, emptied the washing machine into a basket, and put a single item in the machine. And sat and watched TV with Linnea for a couple of hours.

[sunruner.livejournal.com]

Um... well.. the reasons I use are usually,
I love him... (tho there are times when in similar situations I question my sanity on that one.)
He's the boys father and they would miss him.
I would go to jail and lose my kids.
That last one is usually the winner but sometimes it's a very close thing.

Good luck.

[heraldis.livejournal.com]

1) Torture is more effective and satisfying
2) You'd have to wash the pots too
3) The insurance won't pay out unless you do a _really_ convincing job...

[ruthi.livejournal.com]

1. Um.
2. Er.
3. Depression makes people really utterly useless and pointing out how useless they are, in delicate ways, such as killing them, makes them feel worse, which makes them even more useless. Now, hand him a list, and give him a *look* or a word whenever you see him sat down.

Depression

[ailbhe]

Um. Where's my "gets to be really utterly useless free" card, then?

[ruthi.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I was wrong, that there should say: have him make a list and whip himself whenever he's sat down and not actively doing something.

[sashajwolf.livejournal.com]

*sympathies* I used to fall into the trap of managing aegidian's family life for him, too. I don't any more - it doesn't work for anyone concerned. Even his mother seems to have got the message now that it's no use complaining to me about things he has or hasn't done.

I do feel some sympathy for Rob, too, though (as a veteran of arguments of this kind where I have been on the other side), because if Rob wrote out in the same style all the things he'd done during his 9-5.30 job, the list would probably be as long as yours. What happens if you list only the things that one of you does at times when the other isn't doing any of the things on their list? (I'd suggest leaving off the stuff you do to organise his family arrangements, too, and simply not doing it any more).

[kightp.livejournal.com]

Yes, very much what I was going to say. From your perspective, he's not pulling his weight; from his, I imagine, he pulls his weight away from the house all day long and "deserves" a break.

But, of course, so do you, and your job is one that doesn't come with time off.

That may be a productive approach: "Yes, dear, I realize you're busy all day long, but SO AM I, and if it's fair for you to get a break, then it's fair for me to have one, too. How can we make sure both of us get what we need?"

If he's not willing to consider that you're working at least as hard as he is, and deserve just as much consideration, then that's a problem.

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

You'd have to do his work too.
Prison would make it hard to see Linnea.
You love him.
Linnea would miss him (Daaaaadeeeeee).

Yeah, I can't count.

[(Anonymous)]

Um, you love him, he loves you, he gave you Linnea? Best I could do I'm afraid :/

(Psst, throwing things like teatowels is great, 'cos they can't actually hurt anyone, but the act of throwing something does wonders for steam-venting and means he *might* survive the night ;) )

[porcinea.livejournal.com]

I got nothing.

[allyphoe.livejournal.com]

OMG. Allyson's sum total responsibilities:
- Care for Alex 11 hours a day, 2-5 of which she's asleep (I'm on duty from when I get home 'til when I leave); includes keeping her fed and mostly dressed and clean and taking her to swimming and tumbling class
- Manage most of the finances (I pay some bills online)
- Fold laundry (I wash and put away)
- Take out trash (nightly and weekly)
- Give the cat PM food and medicine and clean the box (I give AM food and medicine)

She WOH a couple hours a week on average (<5 in a 2-week span), too.

Me:
WOH ~40 hours a week, but I do have downtime at work
15 hours of college classes
aforementioned chores that are divided
all of the shopping that her mom (who lives with us) doesn't do
arranging for any Alex activities
all of the cooking that her mom doesn't do
all of the yardwork other than mowing the lawn (which we hire done)

Want to be my wife? ;)

[richtermom.livejournal.com]

Our division of labor:
Both: Work full-time.

Him: Care for girl about 2 hours in the late afternoon. Give her snack.
Do "house" laundry (tablecloths, towels, both of which he trashes disproptionately)
Do his own laundry.
Do whatever cleaning is being annoying.
Care for car.
Pay bills.
Mow lawn (which he does far too often and far too short so the grass dies.)
Drive wife and daughter home from grocery.
All non-family entertaining.

Me: Care for girl from roughly 5:30pm to 8 a.m. -usually she sleeps a few hours away from me.
Cook meals. (6 dinners, 2 breakfasts, lunches for all every day.)
Buy food.
Do dishes. Or redo dishes husband did.
Do own and girl's laundry.
Let dog out every two or three hours.
Feed dog and birds and cat.
Make & pack husband's lunch.
Dress/bathe/care for kid. Clean her room.
Contribute all but like a small fraction to household budget.
Arrange for time with grandparents.
Handle husband's prescriptions, appointments and dry cleaning arrangements.
Take sick days when girl is sick.
Empty (disposable) diaper pail.
Contact bank/vendors/mortgage/insurance whenever needed.
Keep in communication with sitter at all times.
Do all cleaning that's getting annoying.


Obviously, the general cleaning stuff is very nebulous. DH does it more often but he does a worse job of it and it drives me crazy that he insists he "cleaned" when often, he really just cleared a table, pegging stuff randomly into cabinets. OTOH, I'm annoying because I don't do the dishes often enough.

We don't have a lot of fun.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

you'd miss him.

probably not until second quarter 2006, but eventually you'd miss him.

[uitlander]

ailbhe take a deep, deep breath.
You are both going through some really nasty and tough stuff right now.
Now breath again, and again deeply.

I'll stop by on Saturday, (prob late morning) and try and be a useful pair of hands. You have my mobile number.

[ailbhe]

We have a Swedish lesson on Saturday morning. But thanks for the offer - we both appreciate it.

[ailbhe]

Many, many thanks, both for offering (which helped in its own way) and for actually coming. It was lovely to see you. I really hope work improves one way or another.

Re: Stay at home mothering

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

since everyone else seems to think this is worth killing him over, allow me to be the dissenting voice.

summing up his contributions via his paid work to one sentence while elaborating in detail on your housekeeping tasks seems less than equitable to me. because i remember how you talked about your paying job when you last had one. yes, you do a lot at home. but he does a lot at his pay-work, and i suspect there is a quite a bit of stress involved. also, did you not say he's been diagnosed with depression? i wish i could make other people feel what that's like. it impresses me tremendously that he's actually not only working a full-time job, but also helps at home. it is a steep uphill battle, every single day. every task feels like moving through molasses, while time is running, getting away from one.

telling him he's done "almost nothing" when he's actually been doing things is not useful.

what is useful is to try and make housework more joyful for him (and you, if you're not enjoying it) -- maybe you can do some of it together? pin a list to the fridge so he knows what needs to be done, if possible ask him to help with the list; make it fun to cross tasks off the list. think of rewards. that sort of stuff isn't just for kids -- most people find housework dull and boring; it helps to spruce up the tasks in some way so they're not such chores. also, no criticising him for not doing things "right" when he does do them (don't know whether you do that, but 9 out of 10 people i know who complain about spouses not helping are forever kvetching at them about how they do those tasks they take on).

oh -- forget being his social secretary. if he wants to see his friends, he can manage it himself. if not, then not. his friends can blame him for it, and work that out with him.

i hope you can find a friendly way to share the labour -- because really, from everything else you've ever said about him, he sounds like a great guy. maybe applying some creativity to the solution of the problem would work wonders.

Re: Stay at home mothering

[ailbhe]

I know what depression is like. I have been living with depression and PTSD for a long time now. I believe him to have been depressed for a very long time. It took me threatening to leave him for him to seek a diagnosis and treatment. I had to write out his list of symptoms for him.

He enjoys his job, and does not spend most of his working time actually doing his pay work. However, he doesn't know how much time he spends reading LJ during working hours and how much he spends working, so he can't provide a list of what he does.

We already have a list of tasks that need to be done. His has gotten progressively shorter since he said which tasks he would take on. He has refused to consider a rewards scheme and the ones I introduced myself were rejected.

I do rewash dirty dishes when I find them in the clean dishes pile, but I do not otherwise criticise the tasks he has completed. That was part of the original bargain and I am prone to keeping promises.

His depression has not affected his productivity at work as far as he can tell, and as far as his manager has told him. It has greatly affected his personal hygiene and other not-work-related areas of life.

He has recently been made redundant and is fairly happy about that, since we have no financial worries to deal with (my financial planning allows for prolonged periods of unemplyment), and has even less to do at work than before. This is, I think, part of the problem, since he enjoyed his work and found it stimulating and energising.

I have already posted that I am going to stop "carrying" him in the ways which cause me most resentment. He thinks this is a good idea.

We're open to other ways of managing the situation. Has this clarified things any?

[radegund.livejournal.com]

Oh, honey.

My principal reaction on reading this is to say that the dynamic whereby Rob's mother complains to you about Rob's habits is ABSOLUTELY POISONOUS. It's so patronising of her, and so stifling, and so, so wrongheaded. I think the only thing you can do about it is to stop engaging - refuse, with dignity, to play the role you're being handed. Which is easier said than done.

As usual, I'm seeing both sides (it's an ingrained habit of mine). I'm curious to know what Rob's version of the "division of labour" lists would be. I suspect that we all tend to think we do the most, work the hardest. You saw Rob as having done "almost nothing" today, whereas he felt he'd been "working really hard". So there's a misunderstanding there somewhere. If Rob thinks he did loads, then it must be really depressing (and possibly confusing?) for him to discover that you don't agree. If it's apparent to him that he can never do enough for you to say "good job", then where's the incentive to make more effort? (As a side issue, I can't help feeling that it's a bit iffy that you get to offer the definitive description of Rob's contribution - if that's actually the way it goes.)

I'm sorry. I really don't mean to imply that you're in the wrong here. You're not. But you're not firmly in the right either. You're in a horrible, difficult situation.

If you quietly and without fanfare cut out all the Collier-management work, that would be an improvement, no?

On the housework front, I can only offer sympathy, and a Pollyanna-ish conviction that you can do a lot with gentle, subtle shifts. Do what seems necessary and manageable to you. Trust Rob to do what seems necessary and manageable to him. Manageable is important. If we feel overwhelmed, we're more likely to down tools. Conversely, if we feel competent and successful, we're more likely to take on further challenges. From each according to his abilities and so forth. If you continue to do work that you resent, that can only harm relations between you.

Oh, dear. Many hugs.

(See also the long and opinionated e-mail.)

PS:
1. You'd miss him.
2. Linnea would miss him.
3. He doesn't deserve to die.

[ailbhe]

Division of labour - I've asked for his side, and he doesn't know what it is. What I wrote looked reasonable to him, but he *agrees* with so much just because he's too depressed to think about it that that's no guarantee. He doesn't have my extensive experience of depression and isn't aware that it has to be battled rather than yielded to. At least, not on a gut level. He's not as frightened of it as I am, I suppose. He has agreed ot ask about counselling at his next GP appt.

Collier-management and Collier-appeasement cease forthwith, if I'm strong enough to do it.

Housework - gods. I could do more than I do, but he'd feel like even more of a failure and I'd resent it. We need to fix other things first, I think, and just keep battling the housework in the background.

And yeah, I said kill so that it would be clear that leaving isn't an option, really. If I said I was going to leave, maybe people would think I meant it. No-one is really going to think I want to kill him.

Are they?

[tiggsybabes.livejournal.com]

I've not read all the other comments yet as it's 4.16 am & I think I'd better try & get some more sleep in a few minutes. It does seem similar to my family life with Andy. I work far longer hours than he does, plus he gets a lunchbreak & 3 hours reading time on the train on weekdays. I also arrange all holidays, socialising, purchases of groceries, furniture etc. I decided on colour schemes for decorating & make the housework rotas. I read everything from the school & make all decisions & fill in all forms. I decide what presents to buy for everyone, including myself, & buy mots of them. I buy & write all cards. Shall I go on? :/

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

There's that classic story about the stay-at-home parent who spends the day not doing any basic maintenance, the house that looks like hell when the work-outside-the-house parent comes home, and the response, "This is what I do all day."

[ailbhe]

When Linnea is, say, two years older... Don't tempt me!

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

He's not worth the jail time?