Managing Money

[ailbhe]

Some people are good at it, some people are ok as long as there's plenty of money, and some people are dreadful at it. I have never really worked out what makes people so. I know people from poor backgrounds and wealthy backgrounds in all categories, as well as people from varying degrees of comfortable backgrounds.

Some people seem to learn to manage money by living in fear of poverty (raises hand) and some people seem to learn by good example (raises hand) and some people seem to learn by being involved in the financial planning and management of their families as they grow up (like good example but more hands-on) (raises hand again) and most people probably have some combination of all three going on.

But the part I can't work out is what makes people who know what bad management does, up to a point (a point between stress and hunger, say) nonetheless continue to manage badly. What do Groups A, B and C learn which group D can't seem to? Let's not assume that group D are delusional, or want to rely on other people in their lives to pick up the pieces - let's assume that their desire and intention is to be able to spend only 252 pence in the guinea and not forever hanker after the half-a-crown that isn't there.

Comments

Long comment is long

[redshira.livejournal.com]

I'll join you in groups A and B - growing up very very poor and having a mum who was incredibly careful and good with the tiny amounts of money she had set me up well; which was handy when I myself ended up being first poor, then impoverished. It's handy now that we have enough, but unfortunately James is rubbish with money so we continue to have problems there, and because the consequences of his poor management from back when he always had a lot of money only started to manifest once I'd moved in with him, guess who everyone blamed?

When we had no income for six months last year, we got through it with some help from friends but mostly because I have the formerly-poor person's obsession with keeping a long-term supply of food in the house at all times and because I am used to financial crisis and don't go to pieces. James does. Of course, because James is a lot more respectable than me, he got the credit for keeping us going.

I think his respectability and the fact that people never treated him like a scummy near-criminal when he wasn't working for 2 years because he still had a lot of money is part of the reason he never learned to budget properly; nobody judged him or told him he ought to be doing this or that in order to be deserving of help or regard, so he never saw the consequences of, say, booking a fortnight in Japan and ten days in New Zealand when he had no money coming in. He wasn't going into debt (at that point) and everyone assumed he had it under control, and whereas my family would have been screaming WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHEN YOU'LL BE IN WORK AGAIN YOU IDIOT CANCEL CANCEL ARGH, his family said nothing.

He has learned a bit from me but mostly leaves me in charge of what happens to our money. I try not to be bitter about the fact that all his idiocy with money is what's led to us being stuck here irrevocably, as HSBC are sending collection agencies after him for £16k in the UK and we'd be in deep trouble trying to pay them back.

One of my best friends works very very hard to stay on top of her finances; she's poor and has never had the chance to be otherwise, and the main reason when she did mad spending was because her mental health had fallen down the loo to a greater extent than ever before. She's got four different accounts and a complicated (to me) system to ensure she doesn't go back into debt, and it doesn't come naturally to her at all.

Interestingly, my mum is crap with maths and I am bordering on dyscalculic, whereas my friend is good at maths and James is a maths and science genius.

Re: Long comment is long

[the0lady.livejournal.com]

Let's not completely dismiss the fact that some of his respectability, as you put it, is between his legs.

Most couples I know divide the money management in such a way that keeping them off the streets is the woman's responsibility.

And don't nobody jump up and say that we all just happen to be "naturally" better at not being idiots who blow money away because we feel like having enough to eat is somebody else's problem: as far as I know there were no Excel spreadsheets on the savannah.

Re: Long comment is long

[redshira.livejournal.com]

Ha, yes, I thought about describing the main things which make him more respectable than me when I posted my first comment; he's a straight, white, middle-class, well-spoken, clearly educated, thin man who is well enough to pass as able-bodied and work full-time (and the illness he does have is an Exotic and Frightening genetic disorder which makes him very tall and thin and cheekboney and could be Dramatic! and Fatal! in ways which cannot possibly be blamed on him, so it's not like less sexy - and usually/exclusively found in women - illnesses like the ones I have which make me fat, hairy, spotty, unable to work and occasionally mad).
In every relationship I've been in where money has been a joint responsibility - and one where it wasn't, I was just sick of him moaning about being skint halfway through the month - it's always been me in charge of the money and that's mostly because I don't trust most other people to do it properly. My mum made a point of teaching me and my sister to make sure we never depended on a man for money, and that if we ever had to, we should make sure we at least had enough to leave quickly if we needed to; I don't think she ever taught my brother anything about money management. Presumably his magical penis will sort all that stuff out for him. Or maybe his wife.

as far as I know there were no Excel spreadsheets on the savannah.

I have read a lot of good things today but this is the best.

Re: Long comment is long

[the0lady.livejournal.com]

OK, pop theory completely unsubstantiated by any data time:

Do we think that perhaps the difference in education comes from the sex mix in the family?

My mom taught me and my sister exactly the same things that yours taught you, though she glossed over the detail which later became a problem. So we're both reasonably OK with money most of the time, or at least able to take hard knocks and learn to be smarter.

My dad has one brother, and both of them, having grown up in abject poverty, are really, really careful with money.

My ex has one sister, and she is the chalk to his self destructive and profligate cheese. Presumably your brother grew up to be less responsible than you and your sister.

So is it the case that, like housework, when there are girls in the family they get handed down all the home and family making wisdom, but in the abcense of daughters mothers pass on more of their knowledge to their sons?

Re: Long comment is long

[redshira.livejournal.com]

My brother's upbringing was substantially different to mine and my sister's for various reasons, but I think you're onto something there. My mum tried to make sure he would never rely on women to do his cooking, housework etc so he's well-versed in all that, and I had the raising of him for the most part until he was about eight or nine so he had a pretty good foundation in not being an arse, but he's led a charmed and privileged life - due in small part to my ex-stepdad having major problems with girls and women but not boys - so he has absorbed some unfortunate attitudes. Anecdotally, all the only-child men I know are much better with stuff that's traditionally been regarded as girl's business, as are the eldest-child men, particularly those whose next sibling was a brother or who were significantly older than the next child.