Before we go to play in the summershine

[ailbhe]

So I was reading this livejournal snark community (mistake number one) and I saw a link to a parenting community and followed it (mistake number two) and I read some of the comments (mistake number three) and I saw one where a woman (supposedly a woman) had typed (unless it was the demons in her trousers) that - wait for it, get this, you'll love this -

"Every woman is born with enough of a tolerance to give birth without drugs." There, that's the quote. It's unattributed so no-one will go and track her down and kill her. There's another one: "Feeling you "can't" do it without drugs is a confidence issue, period. Because you can, everybody can otherwise the human race would have died out -- but it's all whether or not you have the confidence to acutally do it."

Excuse me please, I have to go vomit with rage now. Because I happen to be aware that the leading cause of death in women, until pretty damn recently, was birth. Yessir, the most natural thing in the world used to KILL PEOPLE. And I have no idea what the figures are for babies.

It's great that some people have labours and births they can get through without medical intervention, or without drugs, or without pain relief. My mother had four - and she only had pain relief on the first one because the doctors told her to and she didn't know any better. I'm sure I know other people who did it, too.

But some people would DIE if they did that. And so would their babies. DIE until they were DEAD.

And then, you know, they'd stay dead for a very long time.

So watch what you say. It might be bad for my blood pressure.

On that note, me and my baby - neither of whom died, because I allowed them to pump me full of noxious toxic risk-laden chemicals - are going to go play in the Botanic Gardens at Kew. And it will be lovely. We have a picnic.

Comments

[pauamma]

Whoever wrote that is an idiot, IMAO. Those times aren't so far in the past that I'm willing to allow for the possibility of accidental ignorance.

[djelibeybi.livejournal.com]

Linnea has a very level-headed, sensible mommy. Who does picnics.

IMHO, every birth, every mother, every baby is unique. I've been very lucky to have two quite unremarkable confinements (gas and air doesn't make the pain go away but you care less).

Play in the summershine. Enjoy your family. You've earned it.

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

I haven't yet asked anyone who's told me I didn't "really need" my Caesarean which of me and Weegirl they'd rather have died, but one day I shall.

[livi-short.livejournal.com]

As someone who did die during birth i wholeheartedly agree to your rant. Ok so modern medicine brought me back, but it was touch and go for a LONG time after that and it has effected my health ever since.

[pogodragon.livejournal.com]

Speaking as someone who hasn't given birth and has no wish to give birth. If you find this person I'll help hold her down while you kick her. Or t'other way around if you prefer.

And enjoy Kew, it's a lovely place, I should really visit it again sometime.

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

Let's see how she does without pain control. After all, being violently attacked is the most natural thing in the world.

[random-c.livejournal.com]

And I'll help. She's probably the sort that thinks I don't want kids because I'm scared of the birth.

[sshi.livejournal.com]

I think we're forming an orderly queue here...

The other thing about the supposed wonderfulness of natural childbirth is that, of course, before modern medicine there never was such a thing as professional midwives, oh, no, not at all, no need for that.

[rjw76]

everybody can otherwise the human race would have died out

Um... Because that's how it works. Because everyone has to reproduce to make sure there are some babies to ensure the survival of the race. And everyone can conceive without help because that's a completely natural thing too, right?

[buzzy-bee.livejournal.com]

And everyone can walk because thats natural too!

[buzzy-bee.livejournal.com]

Ah, the natural birth nazis.

I spar with them on occasion, particularly the unassisted birthers. They don't like my story much because I really challenge their ideas that things only go wrong because of intervention. The reality is, things go wrong full stop. Sometimes things go wrong that can be fixed, like with you and L and the fact we have medical provision that can fix them is fantastic. Because less dead mothers and babies is obviously a very good thing indeed. You know if someone had said "if you have a c-section at 37 weeks we can guarantee you a healthy baby I'd probably have been in there like a shot. But of course they wouldn't say that when I quizzed them because sadly *thats* not true either.

A lot of people (and you see it elsewhere - birth nazis, boob nazis, etc) seem to have the difficulty with the concept that rare != never. A 5-10% rate for necessary sections (which seems to be the consensus) is a *heck* of a lot of necessary c-sections. Well into 5 figures per annum in the UK. There's probably as many births again, if not more, that *need* some form of intervention. IIRC the theoretical maximum normal birth rate is about 75%. Now, the problem is there are 3-4 times as many c-sections as are probably necessary taking place and trying to change that is laudable but you have to remember that the aim is not to stop all c-sections, its to prevent the unnecessary ones.

As to pain. :P to them Its something you see less here, IME. Certainly the UK homebirth groups don't focus on the "no pain relief" mantra, they just look at alternative forms of pain relief (like water, aromatherapy, massage, tens or gas and air). You very rarely see someone say they had *no* pain relief. Personally I could have kissed my midwife when she handed over the gas and air, both times, but there was *no way* that mouthpiece was coming out of my mouth for anything!

[rmc28]

This supposed woman has never had a migraine either, has she? Or anything that really really hurt and wouldn't stop. Because otherwise she wouldn't see pain relief as a matter of "confidence".

[buzzy-bee.livejournal.com]

Heh. Someone on one of the groups I am on called calpol child abuse. If I was cutting 4 new teeth all at once, I would bloody well want pain relief, personally. We both need sleep, so L gets medised at bedtime.

[iuil.livejournal.com]

I lived on Neurofen and Anbesol for almost 2 years while my wisdom tooth (yes, singular) was cutting. I was 23 and knew what the pain was. There's no bloody way I'd let a baby go through that if I could help it!

And while I don't particularly like narcotics, I loved the Pethidine in my second labour! I was kind of fond of my epidural in the first too, by the time I got it!

[megpie71.livejournal.com]

Hmph.

I'll just get on the phone and pass that information on to my maternal grandmother. I'm sure *her* mother would be pleased to know it. It would, however, require a ouija board to get the information across, since my maternal great-grandmother died of a post-puerpal haemmorhage after giving birth to her eleventh child.

Yessir, the most natural thing in the world used to KILL PEOPLE. And I have no idea what the figures are for babies.

Still does, in fact. There's still a lot of countries where dying in childbirth is a leading cause of female and juvenile mortality.

[wingedkami.livejournal.com]

This kind of thing makes me too angry to say anything actually useful. So I'll have to settle for: These people need to experience some natural dentistry.

[ahruman.livejournal.com]

But they wouldn’t need to, if they ate less natural sugar…

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Meh. I agree that this person is absurd and even cruel, but I don't agree with your analogy (or the migraine analogy) either. The use of pain medications during labor does often have negative effects on the progress of labor and/or on the baby. Of course there are many situations where pain-relieving drugs are the best thing for all concerned, but women who strive for an unmedicated birth aren't just doing something senselessly macho. If they can manage it - if their pain doesn't outstrip their coping resources - it does (on average) result in better medical outcomes.

In my case, I'm quite convinced that if I'd used pain medications during labor I would have had to have a C-section. I have an abnormally shaped pelvis due to lots of pelvic surgery, and to get my baby out my midwife really had to work with me on changing laboring positions, very specifically directed pushing angles... stuff I couldn't have done if I was woozy or numb from the waist down. Am I somehow a better woman or a better mother because I had an unmedicated birth? Hell, no. But there were sound medical reasons why I'm glad I was able to do it.

[ailbhe]

Actually, given that you *were* able to do it, I think you are in fact a better mother for it - in that you made the decision that was best for everyone, not the one that was easiest. It's a thingummy, concrete example of the theoretical traits we know you have that make you a good parent.

Hindsight! It's the way to make sure all the most important medical choices are right...

But I found reading your birth story a very healing experience, when I was able to cope with birth stories again. And I thank you for posting it.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

All I meant is that I'm not a better mother than someone who did need pain meds to cope with delivery.

I'm glad that my birth story was good for you to read. Very, very glad.

[ailbhe]

Yes, I got the first bit - I wonder *are* there women who ask for and receive unnecessary pain relief? I suppose there must be, just like somewhere there is a single mother who deliberately had three children solely in order to get a council house, but it does seem awfully hard to actually believe.

Hurrah for glad all around!

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I wonder *are* there women who ask for and receive unnecessary pain relief?

I think there are a lot of women who fear childbirth very much, and have no idea of how it could be anything other than overwhelmingly awful. That kind of fear and tension make it awfully damn hard to get through any kind of labor without pain medication. Does that mean they don't "need" it? I guess it depends on what you mean by "need."

[shreena.livejournal.com]

I haven't done so but I would and without hesitation. If there's pain relief and I'm in pain, why not? I don't see why I should hurt if there's a way for me not to hurt.

[pauamma]

Or see their children die of any of a number of natural diseases.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

It's certainlyt possible to die from shock, which severe enough pain could cause. But the real error in her argument is the idea that every woman has the same birthing capacity, or we wouldn't be here as a species. The survival of the species only requires that some survive.

[ailbhe]

"whether all women should undergo a drug-free childbirth"

My mother knows a woman who refused to care for her baby for two years after the birth because it hurt so much. The grandmother had to move in and do it. Two years is a long time in baby-years.

[livi-short.livejournal.com]

in my case the pain was a huge issue that caused me to have a heart attack during delivery. Due to health issues i was only allowed TENS for pain, which worked up until they needed to monitor the baby and so turned it off. When the baby moved she pressed into my kidneys and the pain was excruciatingly painfully and within minutes i was flatlined and had to be resusciated.

but then again what do i know i don't have a medical degree, but i do have a beautiful daughter how i am very very glad survived the experience even though she was born premature and blue.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

You know what's even a bigger fraud than the medicalization of childbirth? So-called "near-sightedess." Everyone has the capacity to see clearly at a distance. They'd have to, wouldn't they? How did primitive man hunt and escape predators for millions of years without a Lenscrafters on every corner, huh? HUH?!

...Damn it, I hate people who think that evolutionary fitness is about the survival of individuals, not the survival of the species.

[ailbhe]

There's an opticians near here that advertises "Everyone sees X Million Images in their lifetime. We make sure tha tyou see the last as clearly as the first."

I keep meaning to go in and ask them about that.

[preachan-sidhe.livejournal.com]

*raises hand* I'll vouch for would have been dead mommas and babies. Nature is not perfect. If she were, she'd have made little women who are 4'8" completely unnatractive to men and would never have given them the opportunity to attempt to give birth in the first place. :P Mainstream medicine certainly does have it's place. The people who say things like that obviously have never been in a place where they'd appreciate it.

[firecat]

The depth of ignorance is a really scary place.