A quick think about toilets and potties

[ailbhe]

We bought Linnea a potty this weekend, a traditional old-fashioned one like this (though not a Brand Name one like that, of course), and I was looking at it while using the loo earlier.

And I thought, "That potty means she can squat, just like she does anyway. That's so sensible! And I've heard that French loos allow squatting, too."

I rapidly descended into slightly incoherent rage at the person or persons who decided that squatting wasn't sufficiently civilised and condemned me to a lifetime of using toilets that are a fraction too high for my short legs, and anyway enforce a sitting position, not an effective elimination position.

And now I want to know whose bright idea it was, anyway, to raise the whole thing above ground level, and why it caught on. I acknowledge that my perspective on this has changed considerably since the whole being-tirn-up-like-a-wet-paper-bag even we refer to in polite society as "the birth", but I suspect that it's a reasonable query even for hale and hearty people with no, ah, bathroom issues, shall we say.

And now I'm going to bed. Linnea went at 21:05 and only woke for about 20-30 minutes since. I lay down with her for a feed, and when she was asleep came down to write this entry. Be suitably grateful!

Comments

[barakta]

I'd probably fall down a French toilet if I tried to use one, but yes they probably are more healthy for you. UK toilets should have height adjustableness at least.

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

I've been many places with floor-level squatting toilets. It's not necessarily a tenable position for someone of my body type. Also, I wasn't entirely sure what to do with my clothing while that was going on.

[ailbhe]

But what about potty-level squatting toilets - that is, a supported squat?

Needing to work out what to do with your clothes would still be an issue, of course. I've never had a problem managing skirts, trousers, or dungarees while peeing out in the middle of nowhere... But I did spend a lot of time as a child out in the middle of nowhere, so I had lots of practice before my effective memory starts. Presumably I had problems when I was ickle.

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I never had that camping experience when I was young, so it's probably more of a stretch for me. I could see a lower squatting toilet working okay. I mean, are you still thinking of something you'd sit on, just at a lower level? If you're sitting, clothing isn't an issue, because your legs can be out in front of you with anything you had to pull down (pants, etc.) around the ankles. It's just when your legs have to be more or less beneath you that I get confused.

[clanwilliam.livejournal.com]

Hey, the main domestic loo just went up nearly an inch in height as I did emergency repairs (I can now plumb in the bottom half of a loo) due to the effects of a wobbly floor. I bet your feet dangle from it!

[ailbhe]

At least all this kicked in after Linnea was born, so everyone assumes the step is for her...

[rosefox]

a) Hard to balance. b) If there's any kind of puddle on the floor, your clothes have nowhere to go but into it, unless they go in the trench instead. I'll stick with flush toilets, thanks.

Re: A quick think about toilets and potties

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

i think it caught on because it's more comfortable for more people. i do the squatting bit when i am out communing with nature, and it can be problematic for one's clothes, and darn uncomfortable if the, uh, session takes a while due to bowel contents that behaves like a cat.

sleep well!

[artela.livejournal.com]

I can't stand the "squatting" thing - you never know what to do with the clothes that could get in the way (I tend to wear trousers all the time), it's damned uncomfortable (especially if you have a dodgy knee), and you can't relax properly (I find being able to relax vital in this regard). Give me a good flush loo any day! (Although I do like them if they're slightly less high so my feet touch the floor properly.)

By the way, I believe, from another friend, that it is possible for us ladies to go standing up (this is a travelling tip for emergencies when the nearest loo is miles away) with the aid of a cunningly cut-away plastic milk container. I have, however, never tried this.

[rjw76]

You can in fact go standing up without the aid of anything other than your fingers- you sort of grip and push upwards. Not, obviously, to be recommended if your hands are dirty, though.

[artela.livejournal.com]

That does rather depend on where things down there are situated - not all women can manage that one :-)

Mileage varies

[sashajwolf.livejournal.com]

I find the best position for me if I need to push to do a bowel movement is sitting on a regular toilet with my feet raised slightly on a footstool or similar. For childbirth, I actually pushed most effectively in the classic feet-in-stirrupts position. I can't push at all effectively in an unsupported squat. I can pee standing up using those bags-with-funnels you can buy for camping trips.

Re: Mileage varies

[ailbhe]

But a potty provides a *supported* squat! That's the bit that seems so sensible to me. She can sit on the potty, supported, in the position she adopts anyway, for filling a nappy.

Re: Mileage varies

[sashajwolf.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure it works like that - I think there's something fundamentally different in the way your muscles work in a supported squat to an unsupported squat, such that if you push most effectively in a squat, adding support doesn't actually help - I've observed kids lifting themselves just a fraction of an inch off the potty seat so that they can push more easily.

Re: Mileage varies

[ailbhe]

Damn. Need another solution. Or, of course, surgery...

[fanf]

The sit-down loo probably started off as a hole in a plank over a pit.

[ailbhe]

Well, yes, but why is it so *high*?

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

that's a good question -- i grew up with the plank-with-hole over a pit in an outhouse out back, and it was higher than the flush toilets i encountered not much later.

now i wonder whether one can buy toilets in different heights?

oh, look: http://www.pro-4-pro.com/en/Design/Company-9428482/42ccebc1777a6.html this one even adjusts for different people.

Adjustable-height toilets

[ailbhe]

Oh my god, I *need* one of those. Or surgery. But it has hand-holds, too! It's possible I wouldn't need hand-holds if the seat was low enough anyway, of course... Wow. Truly you have admirable google-fu.

Re: Adjustable-height toilets

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

the handholds are apparently an add-on.

but it comes with mechanical or electrical adjustment! good ghod, too cool -- i can see this being an enormous boon to anyone who has trouble using a regular toilet, including the paramour's mother with her bad hips. i am sure these are not cheap though. did you click the link for getting more info from the manufacturer? i found their own website, which shows more information; looks like you have to be prepared to do some remodeling of your bathroom wall, because it needs a frame built into the wall. they don't list any prices (this always pisses me off on websites). i am wondering whether you could get this partly paid by your health insurance provider (i'm reading a german site where they say that is possible for germans).

http://www.variclo.com/Gb_Website/index.htm -- they're a dutch company with a UK office.

[leback.livejournal.com]

Just wandering by (if my name doesn't ring any bells, no worries; I know you from alt.poly, but I don't know how often you're reading there these days), and of course, I would choose this topic to comment on. :-)

My first thought on the squatting thing is "Ow, my knees!" Even if supported while actually in the squat, I think I might not enjoy getting down there--much less getting up again. But this definitely seems like the sort of thing where people with different body types and different physical issues are going to have different preferences, so it does seem sort of odd that toilet designs tend to be so one-size-fits- (or, just as likely, doesn't-fit-) all...