Red Mars (also, Dreamwidth)

[ailbhe]

This is partially a test of crossposting from my hitherto unused, brand-new, shiny Dreamwidth account.

But also I wanted to mention Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars which I have been reading for the first time. I kind of wish I'd read it before all the recent discoveries about Mars, but it's pretty good anyway, because I don't pay as much attention as I ought to things like that and Mars sounds exciting and scary and bleak and even more futuristic than a personal jetpack and a shiny silver catsuit.

What happens with SFF I read is this: I ask Rob to recommend a book, and he looks hard at his shelves, and tries to choose one in which nothing appalling happens to children, some major characters are female, not all female characters are mothers or skivvies or intrinsically nurturing or ball-breakers, female characters drive the plot, and male characters are not all hideously sexist.

It's a limiting set of criteria, but at least it's not the Bechdel test.

The last one he offered was great except for the "female characters all being maternal reeeeeally" thing - it was A Fire Upon The Deep by Vernon Vinge. This one even avoids that, though with a cast of thousands it does draw on a lot of sexist stereotypes. It mostly manages to rise above them, though.

I think it's basically Lord of the Flies in space with grownups. I'll probably reread it some day, after I finish it this time. Don't tell me how it ends.

Comments

[rosefox]

Do not, under any circumstances, read Daniel Abraham's Long Price Quartet. It technically meets all your criteria, but really terrible things happen to women, and in particular to their gonads. (Equally terrible things happen to men, but offscreen.)

[ailbhe]

Right. Thanks. I don't think Rob would rec it, but thanks. I've warned him :)

[stonebender.livejournal.com]

You do know there are two more Mars books and a short story collect set in the Mars universe, right? I'm no expert, but I think Kim Stanley does a better than average job on the feminist scale. He's one of my very favorite writers and the Mars books are my favorite of his work.

[ailbhe]

Oh, yes indeedy. Rob's SFF is right in our main library room. They take up a large visual chunk of the shelves slightly above my head opposite the bay window.

[barakta]

I've had Red Mars for a while and just bought Green and Blue 2nd hand as I have enjoyed rereading them.

I'll have to think about scifi which meets your criteria, I'm not sure if Isaac Asimov's Nemesis would work as the protagonist is female and she does stand up to sexism but there is subtle something there. *ponders*

[the-changeling.livejournal.com]

How do you do the cross posting?

[rosefox]

The DW "Create an Entry" page has a crosspost checkbox at the bottom. It does require you to give them your LJ username and password, obviously.

One nice bonus is that if you edit a crossposted entry at DW, the edits propagate over to LJ.

[the-changeling.livejournal.com]

Thanks! That's _so_ easy! :-)

[naath.livejournal.com]

I'm sure I've read lots of good SFF lately... (this is a lie, I have mostly been reading Robert Jordan, who (to be fair) has women who talk to other women about things other than men, women who Drive Plot too; but also wrote 11 volumes of an unfinished series which will be 14 volumes ses Sanderson).

However I haven't read Red Mars (or blue or green mars either) because someone claimed it was boring once. Perhaps I shall give it a go.

[allyphoe.livejournal.com]

A Deepness in the Sky is in the same universe as A Fire Upon the Deep, and I like it better. I haven't read it recently enough to comment on how it treats women, though.

[hitchhiker.livejournal.com]

i slightly preferred 'fire upon the deep' just because it had a high 'whoa' factor, but 'deepness' is definitely a deeper and better-written book.

[therealocelot.livejournal.com]

I can't not comment on this one.

I'm an utter and total Kim Stanley Robinson fangirl. He lives in my town. I've been to book signings, and have ran into him at the post office and had him recognize me, which totally made my year.

I'm currently finishing my second read of the Mars trilogy. It's better the second time through, which is saying a lot.

His climate change series (starting with 40 Signs of Rain) is also good, and one of my favorite portrayals of modern parenting. The mother is, of course, a mother, and a good mother, and nurturing to her children, but also a high-powered scientist who isn't particularly torn between her job and her kids, AND she pumps and extended breastfeeds!!!!

A Deepness In The Sky (same universe as A Fire Upon The Deep) has, if I remember right, a lot less of the "maternal reeeeeally" business, and turns some of that on it's head (though there is mistreatment of human women).

[rmc28]

Oh yes, I started reading Forty Signs of Rain while I still pumped for my son, and what I particularly loved was that while KSR talks a bit about the mechanics of pumping and handling expressed milk, there's no discussion about the reasons the mother is doing full-term breastfeeding - she's just nursing a toddler and that's not even worthy of comment.

Oh and the next character we meet in the book is doing rock climbing. Ok, so I've now not climbed due to pregnancy and childcare longer than I climbed before getting pregnant, but part of me still identifies as 'rock climber', so I really felt that book was "people like me" from the beginning.

[therealocelot.livejournal.com]

Exactly. It isn't a big drama or political statement. No one ever comments that perhaps the toddler should be weaned by now so they have to defend themselves. They just breastfeed the babies because that's what you do with babies.

[ex-serenejo.livejournal.com]

I can't tell you how it ends, because I kept putting it down and never made it past the middle.

[kcobweb.livejournal.com]

I remember reading those and getting totally sucked in. At some point, I had to put it down and go out for something, and I remember being totally stunned that I could just, you know, breathe the air. And get oxygen. Because I was on Earth, not Mars. :)

[tiggsybabes.livejournal.com]

I loved Fire Upon the Deep, good choice :)

[sshi.livejournal.com]

That's possibly the best description of Red Mars that I've ever heard :)
And I would also add my voice to the recommendations for the science in the capitol trilogy, it rocks.

[sophiedb.livejournal.com]

I need to re-read the Mars books - loved them, but it's been a good decade or so since I first read them!

[hitchhiker.livejournal.com]

coincidentally, two of my favourite "recommend to people because they're really, really good and too few people have read them" both have strong female protagonists. 'windhaven' and 'the interior life' - give them a look if you get the chance.