And Death shall have no dominion

[ailbhe]

We really need help, hints or advice on helping Linnea come to terms with Death. It's not her death or my death or anyone in particular's death that's bothering her - it's Death itself. She wants all the dead people to come back to life, so that she can meet them, and for no-one ever to die ever again.

And she has been very upset about it three days running, now.

I'm getting worried.

Comments

[serene]

I think that if you don't feel like it's a situation that a therapist could/should help with, then it's just something you can continue to show empathy for, while letting her know that some things in life are things we can't fix. Death is, of course, the big one. "Yes, sweetie, I know it's upsetting, and I wish I could fix it so you would feel better, but this is one of those things in life that I cannot fix."

[ailbhe]

I think it may *become* a situation a therapist might help with; multiple sobbing sessions are *not* normal for this child! But since death *is* normal, I'm reluctant to assume that that's the best route to take.

A year ago she seemed to have it all sorted out in her head. And now...

[thedivinegoat]

I don't know if it of any consolation, but as a child, I went through a period of a couple of months (at least I think it was around that long) when I'd regularly go into hysterics because I couldn't cope with the concept of the edges of the universe and the beginning of time. (Mum was an atheist, so no creation myths for us! ;-) )

I stopped because I eventually learnt to think around it, and just accept I couldn't understand it although even as an adult I wouldn't try and ponder it for long.

In my completely unqualified opinion, and not knowing Linnea at all, I'd say it something you're going to have to help come to terms with herself, you can maybe supply with the tools to do so (books, and having discussions with her), but she's going to need to do it herself.

Good luck.

[sessifet25.livejournal.com]

Now that's a tricky one. I can't remember how mum and dad specifically handled this when we went through this stage.

Partly because they (almost perversely) didn't need to handle it as such, because it'd already happened so often around us and we knew it wasn't really something to be avoided so we didn't go through the 'but what about death!' thing. (Though apparently teacher telling his class of age 5-6 year olds the sun would blow up in 10 million years gave me nightmares for bloody weeks.)

And partly because...well, they both knew what it was like to lose people from a young age and they showed us by example that when it happens, life goes on. Yes, you are sad and upset and angry and that's all okay. You are allowed to be all those things, but you still have to go to school. No, really. And you still have to eat your dinner. Yes, even the nasty sprouts.

I don't know if there's been loss (close/not so close) recently or if it's a 'theoretical' fear, but I'd possibly go for the 'life goes on' option. Death is a bloody scary thing and completely bewildering and being grounded may just help. So I'd think acknowledgement and encouragment are the best way to go. (How? I really don't know, I'm afraid. Sorry.)

If you really get stuck...possibly it's an idea to have a word with the Humanist Association? In .nl, at least, they get asked to speak at funerals/wakes etc and they might be able to give pointers (and possibly even come over for a chat if you think she'd be open to that).

[euphrosyna]

Maybe... (I'm sure you've probably done this) but explain that lots of people are ready to die... that they're very old and tired and their bodies aren't as good as they used to be and they've done all the things that they wanted to do. And that it's very sad when people die in accidents or who are young but that we're trying hard to stop that from happening, but that many old people think it is a good thing for them. The same way that we don't want to go to bed in the middle of the day (but sometimes have to if we're sick or hurt) but we're happy to go when we're tired at night. She wouldn't like it if someone stopped her from going to bed when she was tired, and the old people wouldn't like it if they were stopped from dying. (Though if you think that is going to lead into a fear of sleeping you might want to adjust the allegory...)

[ailbhe]

Yeah, that led on to her deciding we needed to stop old people from getting sick or tired, ever. I also argued that my Nana was looking forward to Heaven but since Linnea wants to meet my Nana HERE where she is NOW, Nana's preference for Heaven didn't hold a whole lot of water... especially since Linnea's not sure she believes in Heaven at all anyway. In fact, she seems fairly sure she doesn't.

[euphrosyna]

I think (and possibly this sounds harsh but life is) maybe she needs to be told that Nana's preferences trump hers in this case...

Maybe tell her that when she grows up she can help find ways to stop people being sick and tired - being a doctor or a scientist - and giving her ways to channel the energy into being productive will help? I mean there is not a lot she can do now, but if she works hard at reading/science/whatever, she can do something about it in the future.

[ailbhe]

She wants to be an astronaut and find ways for people to live in space so that the Earth won't be too full and no-one will have to die to make space for new people. Among other things.

[1ngi.livejournal.com]

Would talking about the fact that we are all made of stars help? I gather from your posts that she is a bright girl and she might be able to cope with something as small as atoms.

I offer it as it is something that I use now to come to term to death, which I wrote about here: http://1ngi.livejournal.com/112114.html
"
I find myself treasuring the thought that higher mammals have evolved emotions and specifically love as one of their key survival mechanisms. That's a true wonder. When I die I want to buried beneath a tree so that atoms that were once inside stars, and became part of me, will become part of the tree. It will bring forth fruit and be eaten by birds and insects. And so on. I hold dear to the knowledge that I say expressions that were said by my forbears and that my nephew copies me. I kneel in front of a fire and notice what almost feels like muscle memory as I go to light it."

So I'm offering it in all sincerity.

Would she be able to see that because of atoms, people will 'live on' in trees and fruit and birds and grass and cows and in milk, that will be drunk by some little girl one day and then that part of someone will be making up the body of that little girl...

And can I just say that you are wonderful to be so sensitive to your child's emotions.

[sessifet25.livejournal.com]

(Just butting in: I like that. I like that a lot. I may have to steal that at some point. :))

And ditto to your last sentence.

[barakta]

My mum's a primary teacher and I know she's got books bought for school library to cover death but don't know if they're what you're after.

[niallm.livejournal.com]

This almost certainly won't help, but I would try some poetry - as your title suggests. The "Do not cry" poem - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_stand_at_my_grave_and_weep - Eilot's Four Quartets (particularly East Coker, "They all go into the dark"), ... things not telling her that no-one will die or even die now, but things that will explain where, within everything, Death fits.

[ailbhe]

it's not just the scariness of death itself that bothers her. It's the existence of something so unfair that she's being told she- and no one else- can do anything about is what is bothering her

Yes, she clearly links death, poverty, catastrophic weather events etc all together with murder, theft and environmental disasters - the things someone COULD prevent. And she understands that planning and caring for each other can mitigate the effects of some of the stuff you can't alter, like earthquake-proof building and giving things to people who don't have them and so on.

We had no prolonged crying jags today, so that was a relief.

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

I don't have anything very comforting to tell you. Some of us don't ever come to terms with it. I felt the way Linnea feels when I was her age and I still do at forty. I doubt I'll ever find a way to come to terms with it; the best I can do is spend most of my time thinking about other things and trying to ignore it.

[tiggsybabes.livejournal.com]

I'll ask Kate for her opinion when she wakes up, she's not well, so I've left her to sleep.

[snorkel-maiden.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to recall how I would have felt about it at her age, and I think it's possible here that more knowledge might help- I mean in terms of the basic (but important!) science. Literally about death- lack of oxygen, cell death, whatever. Also, as someone above says- some people don't see death as bad, even their own and even if they don't believe in an After- though how you explain that I don't know.

[lovingboth]

I find it interesting that JA(8) has not seemingly been bothered by this. She has had one grandmother die when she was nearly five, and in a few days will have the other one follow her. A pet gerbil also died a few months ago, and the cat about two years ago.

We have talked about what death means, including that some people believe in an afterlife but that I do not. She also knows that my mother and grandmother live on in my memory as how they had been, not as how they became, and that part of them is what makes her, her.

The approach that seemed to most relevant to her thoughts was that, yes, it can be annoying and/or upsetting that people, animals and plants die despite what you want to happen. But it means that life is to be celebrated while you and they are living. You cannot put off doing so without risking that you will miss the chance. The awareness of this is also one of the things that make us human.

Another (not seriously recommended!) approach would be to read her The Monkey's Paw :)

[gmh.livejournal.com]

Would you like me to have a word with her?

[ailbhe]

It might help, it's hard to tell. She... can and does shut down conversation she's not ready for. Fairly often.

But possibly less with people she knows less well.

I'll discuss it with Rob, and we'll arrange to get to London one of these weeks!

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Things that I find helpful anyway:
-Some dead people were horrible, you would wish you'd never met them
-We only have a short time here, but we waste it by sitting and wishing for things to be different that we can't change, instead of getting up and meeting the people who aren't dead yet and changing the things we can change.

I don't think anybody really comes to terms with death on that level until they are terminally ill, they just ignore it and hope it will go away, or choose a religion with doctrine that interprets it as not death.