ailbhe: (Default)
ailbhe ([personal profile] ailbhe) wrote2005-05-19 07:45 am

Cloth nappies: The Today Programme

There's yet another study showing that cloth nappies are no better for the environment than disposables. And yet again, the sample size for cloth nappies is about a tenth the size of the disposable users. Alarmingly, within that sample, they only used terry nappy users, which was a tenth of that again - so while they used 2,000 disposable users, they used only 32 terry nappy users for most of the survey.

They keep talking about "the energy used to wash and dry the nappies" but I know no-one who habitually tumble-dries cloth nappies, especially terries, because it takes too bloody long. Most people line-dry them whereever possible, and many people hang them in the house on radiators or similar during the winter.

They mention the energy used transporting the cotton to manufacture the cloth nappies, but not the energy used to drive the petrol-guzzling car to the shop every week or fortnight to buy new disposables.

The study only covered first-child environment costs, ignoring the fact that cloth nappies can be reused by second or subsequent children.

It assumed washing at 90 degrees C which isn't reocmmended by any of the re-usable nappies I've seen; 60C is the usual. And it assumed that you soak your nappies in a strong bleach solution prior to washing them. That's a bit crazy. Most people dry-pail because it's less hassle.

And there was no mention of the lock-away core in the centre of disposables, the bit that gives off that weird sickly smell when it's wet, the bit that gives nappy rash to Linnea as soon as she uses a disposable.

Unless they were only studying eco-friendly disposables, the biodegradable ones, because they are actually not half bad and I can see how they'd be environmentally comparable to cloth nappies regularly bleached and washed at 90 degrees and tumble-dried. We use them ourselves with no qualms whatsoever.

I could also rant about the habit many folks have of encasing their plastic-coated raw-sewage-containing disposable nappies in scented plastic nappy bags before putting the nappy bag in a plastic bin-liner and sending the whole lot to landfill. But I won't. I'll just, you know, mention it. Because cloth nappy users send all the sewage to the sewage treatment systems. Not plastic-encased in a landfill.

[identity profile] artela.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 07:07 am (UTC)(link)
Actually, having just completed a study of plastics versus papers in my latest OU course... plastics have a lot less of an environmental cost in their manufacture (which surprised me!)

I assume with the "driving to the shops once a fortnight for more nappies" was ignored as they'd assume people would just buy them along with their normal shopping.

[identity profile] bopeepsheep.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 08:20 am (UTC)(link)
But mentioning the travel required to produce cotton nappies kind of leads me to the conclusion that disposables are all manufactured in the supermarket or in Boots. Because, you know, they don't need transporting from anywhere first.

The study also missed out the long-life of cotton nappies, as well as all the flaws [livejournal.com profile] ailbhe has mentioned above. A disposable has a working life of no more than eight hours (used overnight for an older baby; the average is probably more like two). A cotton nappy has a working life that can continue for years. My mother offered me my terry nappies as burp cloths, because she still has a couple of them left - the rest have long since become dusters, floorcloths, parts of fancy dress costumes, etc.
aegidian: (Default)

[personal profile] aegidian 2005-05-19 09:36 am (UTC)(link)
The full report <http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/commondata/acrobat/nappies_1072099.pdf> (1.7Mb) is rather more exhaustive than the Today program or BBC website reports, and investigates most of the environmental points you make.

It (of course) comes to a more measured conclusion than the press coverage.

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[identity profile] sashajwolf.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 12:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree that the toilet wipes are unnecessary for most people, but they do have some legitimate uses, I think. For TMI-type reasons connected to my IBS, I have days when ordinary loo roll just doesn't do the job for me.
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[identity profile] sashajwolf.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 04:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, the disposable loo brush things? They boggled my mind.
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[identity profile] pir-anha.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 06:20 pm (UTC)(link)
hm. i wonder just how evil they are, considering that they are safe for septic tanks.
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[identity profile] pir-anha.livejournal.com 2005-05-21 08:44 am (UTC)(link)
sure, people should be more aware of what they flush down the drain, but that link doesn't say anything about the specific chemicals in those flush-brushes, which is what i'd be interested in.

of course i wouldn't want to swim in a septic tank; i don't want to kill myself (there's very little oxygen down there, nevermind the methane, hydrogen sulfide, carbon dioxide, and other life-threatening gases :). what does that have to do with anything? the septic tank is the wastewater treatment system that sits between our house and the groundwater; our sewage does not go straight into the environment, it goes into the septic tank in which bacteria clean it up. we take good care of our septic tank, and are pretty careful what we flush down the drain. i use very little bleach, no germicidal cleaners, etc. i'm ecstatic about the new melamine sponges, because now i can clean a whole lot of things with just water.

lots of household chemicals are unsafe for septic tanks because they kill off said friendly little bacteria; if something is safe for them, it's usually not the very worst thing one could toss straight into the sea either. i mean, considering that lots of people don't use pure elbow grease in cleaning their toilets, i wouldn't direct my ire at this particular product. i rather like the idea of them; i despise the regular brushes because they're horrifically unhygienic. i am not a germ freak by any means, but i draw the line at bits of human feces sitting around in my bathroom for my cats to rub against.

[identity profile] sashajwolf.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 12:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I saw in a link from the BBC page about this story that some company near Manchester is working on a recycling plant for disposable nappies, which will separate and reuse the plastic, the fibre and the polymer in the core. That looked pretty cool.

[identity profile] charlosmum.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 03:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, this is being done in some parts of Canada now.

[identity profile] seren.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 02:00 pm (UTC)(link)
I must admit that I tumble dry my nappies but only because we have crazy water that turns them into sandpaper if we do anything else with them! Now it's Summer I'm planning to line dry and then put them in the drier for 10 mins to soften them up.
I haven't had a chance to read the report yet but it sounds pretty ridiculous :/
We dry pail, use a tiny amount of washing powder and have never washed at 90 degrees.
The smell of wee in disposibles is revolting, isn't it?!

[identity profile] seren.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 05:56 pm (UTC)(link)
We already use vinegar and it doesn't seem to make much difference :( Maybe I should chuck half a bottles worth in there and see what happens ;)

[identity profile] mrs-warwick.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 03:06 pm (UTC)(link)
the smell of wee in disposibles is revolting, isn't it?!

not just wee!
When we are at parent and baby groups, it is quite obvious when a child in a disposable has filled its nappy. I can rarely tell that Rhiannon has filled hers without actually having a look.

[identity profile] k425.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 03:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Hah. Is it a girl/boy thing? Or do we just feed YoungBloke terrible things? He farts like a trooper and boy can we tell when he's done a poo...

[identity profile] mrs-warwick.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 05:08 pm (UTC)(link)
It could be a boy/girl thing.
We could tell with Rhiannon's (male) cousin Alexander, it was very obvious with Rohan on Saturday at the library, Charlie at the NCT coffee mornings, Callum at Sing and Sign last week...

[identity profile] seren.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 05:57 pm (UTC)(link)
(I love the name Rhiannon - it's my daughter's middle name)

We normally have to sniff Lucy's bum to be sure that she's done a poo, but now you mention it, I *have* noticed the smell of poos in disposibles filling entire rooms!

[identity profile] radegund.livejournal.com 2005-05-19 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
That's ridiculous. Argh.

You know what? I bet they assume bleach and 90 degrees because the sort of person who thinks scented nappy bags are reasonable is probably going to go EWWWW! SQUICK! BOIL! KIIIIIILL! at the mere thought of reusing something that's been shat on.